Comments on Renegade Rebbetzin: Ye of little faith, plus the Jewish education bee ...

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2008-09-27T20:33:00.000-04:00

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Boats Sail On The Rivers (1)Boats sail on the rive...

2008-09-21T03:19:00.000-04:00

Boats Sail On The Rivers

(1)

Boats sail on the rivers,

And ships sail on the seas;

But clouds that sail across the sky,

Are prettier far than these.

(2)

There are bridges on the rivers,

As pretty as you please;

But the bow that bridges heaven,

And overtops the trees,

And builds a road from earth to sky,

Is prettier far than these.

-----by runescape gold

Costs of Jewish education are constantly on the ri...

2008-07-30T21:21:00.000-04:00

Costs of Jewish education are constantly on the rise in addition to everything else connected with religion. Why is it that everything and anything associated with religion has to make the frum Jew feel extorted?

Just a few example:
Jewish schol teachers don't earn that much more than other school teachers, nor do the buildings cost any more either. Why is the tuition double?

Kosher food:
Cholov Yisroeal milk is and cheese is close to double, even they use the same farms and facilities for production. Why?

Kosher chickens are triple the cost of non kosher chickens, while the actual cost to procude a kosher chicken is about 25 cents. Why?

Even more ridiculous:
A neighborhood not far from here now has "kosher" eggs, as a couple misguided idiots decided that eggs from the supermarket are no longer acceptable. Of course, there price is close to double. WTF?

Cost of other religious articles, especially those associated with holidays, such as ethrogim, matza, etc, have also soared in cost way out of propoertion. Why?

Are we in a perpetual cycle of having to charge more because we are being charged more for everything?

Once upon a time there were laws in place that prevented Jwes from ovrecharging each other as clearly defined in the Rambam's Mishneh Torah. Yeshiva ketana in the time of the Tanaim were places for orphans to go to learn as they didn't have parents to teach them. The places where our great rabbis gathered to learn and debate didn't charge outrageous tuition fees either.

What happened?

I have just been told of your blog by a friend, Re...

2008-03-25T12:46:00.000-04:00

I have just been told of your blog by a friend, RenReb, and am happily reading through the past posts. Please pardon my having to post this anonymously; I don't currently have a blog of my own.

The topic of challenges in Jewish education is of particular interest to me, having been involved in Jewish education for several decades, as a student, educator, administrator, and parent.The complexity of the issues are difficult to sort out, but there are groups trying to address them.

I highly recommend checking out the Superfund for Jewish Education and Continuity [SFJEC] and Jewish Educational Leadership Initiative [JELI] that was started in Chicago, Illinois to address several facets of the problem. Instead of 'pissing and moaning' about the lack of quality educators and resources, and high tuition costs, these two groups are designed to do something about it. What groups like SFJEC & JELI are doing is saying, "No excuses! Part of responsibility of the entire Jewish community is to educate our children. Not just parents, not just teachers--ALL of us. Let's work on it."

I believe that the vast majority of parents out there aren't just being whiners. I believe that most teachers and admins in the school systems do try to do a good job with what they get [and despite the tuition costs, it isn't enough--most teachers in the US aren't paid enough for what the populace expect them to do, which is RAISE the kids instead of what they're really supposed to do: supplement the parents' role with an education. That's a problem in ALL schools in the US, not just Jewish ones.]

The bottom line is this: We need to educate the kids in Jewish schools, and Jewish schools need to be places that the kids stay in to get the best education from their teachers, with support from parents and communities, and can leave with a quality education when it's time. It costs money, it costs time, and most of all costs EFFORT and COMMITMENT.

Yes, parents will kvetch. Teachers will kvetch. And others will kvetch about them kvetching. But wouldn't it be more effective if we all actually DID something about it?

Ok, this is several months late but I only just di...

2007-11-12T20:27:00.000-05:00

Ok, this is several months late but I only just discovered your blog now.

We have five girls, all in Yeshiva HS.

We are not poor, far from it -- with a gross income that is just shy of 200k/yr. And, you would think with that kind of income we would live quite well.

And, I think we SHOULD...

BUT-- tuition is now 25k per child per year -- for us that is $125k a year! That certainly does not leave enough money for us to (after taxes and other deductions) pay our mortgage, grocery bills, insurances, medical bills, automotive expenses, the cleaning lady (hey, we BOTH work, All the girls are BUSY with school and activities, that is a NECESSITY, not a luxury -- she only comes for 4 hours a week), utilities -- you get the picture.

We live in a MODEST home that is in dire need of work -- and I do not mean renovating my kitchen so it has all the latest fixings! I mean FIXING what is broken...but it ain't happening.

The Yeshivas post a tuition increase EVERY year. I once asked them WHY the tuition increases every year. The answer? They give their teachers raises every year. Sheesh! I do not get a raise every year.

Our priorities ARE in the right place--otherwise why else would we be sending our kids to Yeshivot? But I do seriously question that it must cost as much as it does.

At this point in our lives-- I do not foresee that we will EVER be able to retire.

Grrr...

While your posts pertain to Yeshiva, I would like ...

2007-09-16T19:54:00.000-04:00

While your posts pertain to Yeshiva, I would like to express the same concerns for supplemental programs. For many reasons that I won't go into my children attend public school, although I am a Yeshiva graduate. Their education is phenomenal, and the overall test scores of their school is higher than any of the four Jewish day schools in San Diego. I have a huge be in my bonnet, if not an entire swarm of bees, about the parents who expect their children to learn everything Jewish in 2-5 hours a week, while foresaking any semblance in Yiddishkeit in the home or community, including sending their children to Jewish camps.
Being Jewish is expensive - our schools are costly, our food is costly our camps are costly and our rituals are costly ($36/month to dunk in the mikvah). We accept that and simply work harder. People should spend less time pissing and moaning and more time doing. What ever happened to "Na-aseh v'nishmah?"
BTW - I love your language and honesty. People who can't listen to the terms piss and moan or who kvetch about commas and typos need to blog elsewhere!

Renreb's language is fine. The whole point of this...

2007-09-08T09:09:00.000-04:00

Renreb's language is fine. The whole point of this blog is to show the side of a Rebbetzin who is a Regular Person, not perfect, not always pious, but always focused on the really important things.
Deb

I can't leave the last comment unchallenged (havin...

2007-09-06T10:42:00.000-04:00

I can't leave the last comment unchallenged (having experience with Jewish schools both in the US and in England). The cost of Jewish education in the UK is cheap (about 25% of American tuition) because it's governemnt funded. Simple as that.

That being said, the quality of education at Jewish schools in England (or at least in London) is far inferior to almost any American day school. Class sizes are about 30 kids per class.

Specifically, the high school that is sometimes referred to as the "flagship" of orthodoxy in the UK is very poorly run in a number of ways. Most notably, the quality of limudei kodesh is embarrassingly low by US standards.

Why is the cost of education so high? Perhaps a fe...

2007-09-05T09:28:00.000-04:00

Why is the cost of education so high? Perhaps a few less administrators and a few more good teachers would sort out the problem. In England the Jewish schools provide an excellent education without the need for costly administration. All the money is spent on the most valuable resource, the teachers!The fact that Jewish education in the US is prohibitive for a lot of families is not acceptable, there should be a better solution.

RenReb, I'm anon8:37 who posted the comment about ...

2007-09-03T17:12:00.000-04:00

RenReb, I'm anon8:37 who posted the comment about some of your language. I suggest you smile nicely, ignore the loud posters who say that all the language is fine, continue to write what you feel -- and then, before you press SEND, correct any language that you know will offend some people and can be phrased differently but equally effectively.

The important thing is not the people who will dump on me for writing this, but your own sense of what's right.

Thanks!

Wow, this was great. Especially the part about pa...

2007-09-03T01:32:00.000-04:00

Wow, this was great. Especially the part about parents who expect their kids to marry Jewish (we don't aim so high here) when they don't take them to shul, send them to Jewish schools or keep the Jewish lifestyle mitzvot (Shabbat, Kashrut, etc.) And I know, too, that there are no guarantees (my HS rebbe always said, "Hey, Avraham had a Yishmael. Yitzchak had an Esav.") but you take your kids out of the (excellent but really needs you) day school or don't consider it in the first place because it's expensive or you value the diversity offered by the public schools and then expect what, exactly? I try not to be annoyed and just try to help and be sad, but argh! Then I remind myself that I just work here. It's not my job to run their lives. I forget sometimes, like a mom, because I really, really care. But we just need to do our best, leave the rest to the Boss and relax as much as possible.

and sometimes even all the tuition money in the wo...

2007-09-02T12:14:00.000-04:00

and sometimes even all the tuition money in the world can't save a school when it loses big donors.

No the problem is not leadership. the problem is ...

2007-09-02T00:07:00.000-04:00

No the problem is not leadership. the problem is everyone wants someone ELSE to be the leader. You want inspiring leadership - become an inspiring leader. At least the rabbis are doing something - maybe not well but they are trying. What about you?

Leadership... isn't the problem leadership? folks ...

2007-08-31T23:58:00.000-04:00

Leadership... isn't the problem leadership? folks look to principals, and rabbis, and others for LEADERSHIP and "guidance" with priorities. when leadership is afraid to speak up for fear of offending folks who *might* have money to contribute (after that pesach hotel and that HUGE bar mitzvah or wedding or the latest model gas guzzling escalade....) then we all suffer. especially the folks who actually really do need help with tuition and end up feeling humiliated because even with scholarships they are struggling to do a simple bar mitzvah and pesach at home.

since people must, in principle, fully disclose their financial circumstances, why don't schools say NO to folks who "demand" financial aid and then use tuition money for a Pesach Hotel and obscenely extravagant simchas? or are these folks cheating the IRS as well?

you can't blame the rabbis and the principals for the behavior of others, but you can ask why they continue to be complicit in these behaviors by not speaking up and reminding people what is important in life. even the complaining can be turned on its head by helping people to re-evaluate their priorities. isn't that what good leadership is about? and beyond good... inspired and inspirational leadership can bring about significant change. it has to start somewhere...

oh wait.. we're not talking about the upcoming presidential election are we?

I love love love this piece - Everyone blames rabb...

2007-08-31T19:33:00.000-04:00

I love love love this piece - Everyone blames rabbis, teacher, administrators for the state of education but don't do anything personally about it. As another renreb I am so sick of everyone blaming the rabinnic leadership for their problems. A rabbi can work with you not instead of you.

The last commenter threw out the other red herring of an excuse . . . kollel. How many kids from kollel families are actually in your children's school? How much of the budget does their tuition account for? If you are not living in Lakewood then there are not all that many kollel yungeleit in your community. And tuition doesn't cover the expenses so kolleleit are not the cause of all things evil

The problem is from the "learner's" who get marrie...

2007-08-30T19:34:00.000-04:00

The problem is from the "learner's" who get married have kids and say they can't afford tuition because they sit and learn. And of course G-d forbid do their Kollels or of their own volition go to the school and offer free tutoring services? No all the money has to come from parents that work all day and make a nice living and then have to give the money to a school that crams 25 kids in a classroom because only 5 of them are paying full tuition. Let all the bums that are not sitting and learning for a reason ie studying to become a Dayaan, Rebbe, Shul Rabbi etc... get off thier tuchas's and get a job!

ok, from someone who also lives on the other side ...

2007-08-30T04:16:00.000-04:00

ok, from someone who also lives on the other side of the pond -- all is not rosy in the education sphere, one of my greatest disappointments. while my kids' school is pretty good now that we've got a wonderful principal, my kids have 37 kids in their classes. the school could be great if misrad hachinuch would allow for more teachers, thereby cutting class size. at my youngest one's 1st grade parent orientation i was joking with one of the other olah parents how our perceptions have changed: my youngest has only 28 in her class -- and this is a good thing. making aliya on the basis of your child's formal education costs alone will most likely end in disillusion and disappointment. don't get me wrong -- i am not unhappy that we made aliya, my children are getting so much more they would not get in the united states but be realistic about the "free" formal education you would get.

Here's a solution - make aliyah. Our total tuitio...

2007-08-30T02:43:00.000-04:00

Here's a solution - make aliyah. Our total tuition for 3 girls (2 in high school, 1 in middle school) is a bit over $3,400 - including transportation. The only thing it does not include is books (throw in another $300). This is for an excellent school with a variety of majors.

Add this to your reasons to make aliyah.

Have to agree with Anon, the schools just aren't r...

2007-08-29T16:14:00.000-04:00

Have to agree with Anon, the schools just aren't run well. Money is wasted all the time. As for the quality of teacher, it would help if they were recruited on their ability to actually teacher, rather than just being related to the principle or other teaching staff!

I sometimes piss and moan about tuition, but mostl...

2007-08-29T10:43:00.000-04:00

I sometimes piss and moan about tuition, but mostly for the same reason that people piss and moan about gas prices. Because it's expensive.

However, the legitimate complaint is that schools are not run efficiently. There is much waste and way too many assistant principals. The schools that I send my kids act more like self-interested profit-maximizing institutions rather than as institutions that exist to serve the community.

As another blogger that is well known here recently pointed out, a little bit of transparency would help cut down the pissing and moaning.

Rebbitzin: Such language, such verve, so adamant -...

2007-08-28T17:42:00.000-04:00

Rebbitzin:
Such language, such verve, so adamant - how delightful. What a class A blog, and welcome back to the land of the blogging. YoYenta.com has a blog posted Aug 13 that also deals with Jewish education and its problems, although not from the Orthodox perspective, along with some lively comments.
Not knowing when you'll post next, Shanah Tova Rebbitzin.

we love the renreb! I just wanted to be yelled at....

2007-08-28T15:58:00.000-04:00

we love the renreb! I just wanted to be yelled at.

:(

Would all you obnoxious commenters please keep you...

2007-08-28T05:11:00.000-04:00

Would all you obnoxious commenters please keep your comments to yourselves???

I can't STAND sycophants?!

And RenReb: Was that an "ahem" you just pulled on your blog, by changing something retroactively?

;-)

Would all you obnoxious commenters please keep you...

2007-08-28T01:47:00.000-04:00

Would all you obnoxious commenters please keep your comments to yourselves??? The RenReb finally came out of hiding and wrote a great post, but I wouldn't blame her if she decided to wait another month or two before gracing us with her presence again.

Why is it necessary to correct her grammar? Or complain about [your perceived] "bad words" she chooses to use? The rest of us are very happy with her posts, so please keep your mouths shut or stay away from her blog if she bothers you so much!

RenReb-I love you! Ignore the obnoxious people. You're perfect just the way you are.